I have been puzzled for some time with the view of some fundies – in particular the young-earthers – who call Jesus the Creator. Among most trinitarians, creation is seen as the domain of the father, not the son (even though the son was always there with the father.)
So I consulted with a theologian colleague of mine, and here’s what he responded:
My best guess is that what you’re seeing is a remnant (or maybe a revival) of an old-fashioned Evangelical theology, one that more traditional theologians called “Christomonism” in the middle of the 20th century. As you can guess, it’s a kind of unitarianism, but with Jesus becoming the sole member of the Trinity rather than the more usual unitarian focus on the traditional Father as the sole represention of God. Its roots historically were with a kind of frontier piety, but with little sense of the “Old Testament.”
After writing the paragraph above, I tried finding the term on the web, and got:
Actually, in the New Testament most of the time Jesus is referred to as the Creator. Sometimes the same writers will refer to God as the Creator. It seems that since Jesus is God (or part of the God-head) the two names are used interchangably in this matter. I feel that some of the difficulty is that there is only a perceivable distinction when Jesus is in a human body, therefore not in heaven. So it is impossible to properly disctinguish between what the Father does as opposed to the Son. I wish I could understand/explain it better, but the finite will never fully comprehend the infinite.
Not sure if you’re thinking of different verses, but all NT references to Jesus as Creator are very indirect, at least so far as I am aware. In John (where almost all of these occur) primarily but also elsewhere, it appears to be through the identification of Jesus with `Word’.
The other example I found is Ephesians 9, but only in some versions (especially the KJVs): “And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: …”
Even here, the context (and the consequently varying interpretations) appears to be the same issue of identifying Jesus with Logos/Word.
So for this: “It seems that since Jesus is God (or part of the God-head) the two names are used interchangably in this matter. I feel that some of the difficulty is that there is only a perceivable distinction when Jesus is in a human body, therefore not in heaven. So it is impossible to properly disctinguish between what the Father does as opposed to the Son. I wish I could understand/explain it better, but the finite will never fully comprehend the infinite.”
The distinction appears to be primarily between Jesus and Word, where Word is minimally an instance or elucidation of God/God’s will, not necessarily an equivalence. John draws this equivalence explicitly (1.1), but this is an addition, if not a complete departure, of John to the synoptic gospels.
I would say that identifying Jesus as “Creator” is tenable as an interpretation of NT (putting aside the more general troubles with Trinitarianism), but it is a deviance.
On a side note, I really hope that you do not sincerely subscribe to “the finite will never fully comprehend the infinite,” particularly if you are supposed to believe in the “infinite.”
Daniel Fincke is the founder, owner, and primary blogger of Camels With Hammers. Dan has his PhD in philosophy from Fordham University. He wrote his dissertation on Nietzsche’s philosophy and metaethics. At Camels With Hammers he aims to discuss atheism, ethics, religion, Nietzsche, secularism, and general issues in philosophy in ways that are both accessible to non-philosophers and yet stimulating to professional philosophers. He is simultaneously an Adjunct Assistant Professor at both Hofstra University and the City University of New York Hunter College, and also an Adjunct Professor at William Paterson University, Fairfield University, and Fordham University. He has taught at the university level since 2003. His remarks on this blog, of course, do not speak for any of the universities with which he is affiliated.
Until he was 21 he was a devout Evangelical Christian. As an undergraduate, he studied philosophy and minored in religion at Grove City College, which is one of America's most religiously and politically right wing colleges. He became an atheist there during his senior year five months after The Portable Nietzsche dealt what would prove to be the fatal blows to his faith.
Dan lives in Manhattan. He is a muppet of a man. You can SUBSCRIBE TO CAMELS WITH HAMMERS. You can also e-mail Dan at camelswithhammers at gmail . com. You are invited to become his Facebook friend, +1 him on Google Plus, follow him on Twitter, and/or or like Camels With Hammers'Facebook page. Listen to an interview he gave to the Angry Atheist podcast to hear him discuss his deconversion and his views on atheism and religion. Watch a 10 minute video in which he overviews some of his views on Nietzsche that he developed in his dissertation. Read his article Apostasy As A Religious Act (Or "Why A Camel Hammers The Idols Of Faith") if you are curious about the meaning of the blog's name. Eric Steinhart is an occasional guest contributor, so remember to check the authorship of each blog post to know who you are reading. He is a non-theist metaphysician and philosopher of religion. He is Professor of Philosophy at William Paterson University, and is the author of many scholarly articles and three books.
I have been puzzled for some time with the view of some fundies – in particular the young-earthers – who call Jesus the Creator. Among most trinitarians, creation is seen as the domain of the father, not the son (even though the son was always there with the father.)
So I consulted with a theologian colleague of mine, and here’s what he responded:
My best guess is that what you’re seeing is a remnant (or maybe a revival) of an old-fashioned Evangelical theology, one that more traditional theologians called “Christomonism” in the middle of the 20th century. As you can guess, it’s a kind of unitarianism, but with Jesus becoming the sole member of the Trinity rather than the more usual unitarian focus on the traditional Father as the sole represention of God. Its roots historically were with a kind of frontier piety, but with little sense of the “Old Testament.”
After writing the paragraph above, I tried finding the term on the web, and got:
http://www.bing.com/search?q=christomonism&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IE8SRC
Actually, in the New Testament most of the time Jesus is referred to as the Creator. Sometimes the same writers will refer to God as the Creator. It seems that since Jesus is God (or part of the God-head) the two names are used interchangably in this matter. I feel that some of the difficulty is that there is only a perceivable distinction when Jesus is in a human body, therefore not in heaven. So it is impossible to properly disctinguish between what the Father does as opposed to the Son. I wish I could understand/explain it better, but the finite will never fully comprehend the infinite.
‘the finite will never fully comprehend the infinite’
You are joking, right?
No, if I was joking I would say “a horse walked into a bar . . . “
Matt,
Not sure if you’re thinking of different verses, but all NT references to Jesus as Creator are very indirect, at least so far as I am aware. In John (where almost all of these occur) primarily but also elsewhere, it appears to be through the identification of Jesus with `Word’.
The other example I found is Ephesians 9, but only in some versions (especially the KJVs): “And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: …”
Even here, the context (and the consequently varying interpretations) appears to be the same issue of identifying Jesus with Logos/Word.
So for this: “It seems that since Jesus is God (or part of the God-head) the two names are used interchangably in this matter. I feel that some of the difficulty is that there is only a perceivable distinction when Jesus is in a human body, therefore not in heaven. So it is impossible to properly disctinguish between what the Father does as opposed to the Son. I wish I could understand/explain it better, but the finite will never fully comprehend the infinite.”
The distinction appears to be primarily between Jesus and Word, where Word is minimally an instance or elucidation of God/God’s will, not necessarily an equivalence. John draws this equivalence explicitly (1.1), but this is an addition, if not a complete departure, of John to the synoptic gospels.
I would say that identifying Jesus as “Creator” is tenable as an interpretation of NT (putting aside the more general troubles with Trinitarianism), but it is a deviance.
On a side note, I really hope that you do not sincerely subscribe to “the finite will never fully comprehend the infinite,” particularly if you are supposed to believe in the “infinite.”
(ugh abuse of mathy terms).